The stuff continues, but if you want it in order, you've got to read the previous journal entry.


Sadistfaction: i knew that would give me your undivided attention,

now,...no more name calling, you have my word, on the other hand no more oneliners from you, your not clever so dont pretend you are, i want answers.

i am curious to know how you ethically justify making a living off of people's faith in the unprovable?

i am wondering why you allow yourself to profit off of people fear and uncertainty of their existence?

i am wondering what result you gains from having this "faith" when it is inevitable that people die, jesus does not save... what benifits does it offer if people still die?

why didnt god publish the bible himself rather than allowing this supposed "holy book" to be haphazardly compliled over hundreds of years?

if heaven is so wonderful than wouldnt the logical thing be to just die as soon as we are born of as painlessly as possible? and how could god blame you for this after all we are only human and "nobody is perfect" certainly not a human so how could they resist having eternal bliss? oh yeah thats right ending your life full of pain, misery, heartbreak, and your inevitable death would giving up. right...nevermind this one.

have you ever noticed that things are always different from what you initially thought once you understand more about them? as in a part of growing up, can you remember some of your perception when you were a child? look how different they are now that your know more...you think i am an "atheist fundementalist" (what ever the fuck that is?) but you have no idea what i am. things are always different when you understand more about them, your human image of a "god" to be worshipped is a rather immature thing to believe in, i am not belittling you, if you want the worthless consolation many are worse off than you, though i fail to see how you can take any comfort in that, which brings me to my next point>>>

what do you hope to accomplish by worshipping? when people always refer to tragic events as "god's will" yeah as if a God who lets a baby die of s.i.d.s. is deserving of worship! if this is how god runs his show have fun in "heaven".

this is an opinion, but i think you should be made aware of it, i have found that many times, the most ethical/moral minded people are the ones who are the most fearful of trying or pursuing their dreams, they doubt their abilities and so they pursue a safe, easy route to "greatness" or elavating themselves from theaverage ape, and the choose a path of morals, ethics, religions, after all you do not necessarily have to be smart to "good" or phyisically fit to make an ethical decision, you just have keep "others" in mind, it is all a facade becuase the were too afraid to be an astronaut or a pirate, or human cannonball, or win the nobel prize, or place Gold in the 100 meter sprint in the olympics. repressing your desires makes you want to hold others back,you wish to keep them at your level. you were afraid. it makes you have strong attachment to community. like you.
so what did you really want to be DC? think back...way back, what was it? the next mozart? a rock star? the capatain of the star ship cowan? or something more fundemental, a spectar who travelled on the winds making people happy, making a cold fall day not feel so cold...something like that maybe? but instead you have found a cheap substitute, full of people blathering on about their problems, that and you have to roll over like a five dollar whore everytime someone tries to argue with you, because you cant prove anything, bummer...dude, you totally Gypped yourself! i could be wrong but there is a sketch of synapses in my brains that say this is not so far from the truth.


In reply to: "Do you suddenly care or have alturistic motives?"

i dont know. probably not in the way you would consider altruism, no, but i like to figure things out and solve complex puzzles, this is just one of them.

i think it is funny that you actually thought i was an "Atheist-fundementalist", but a "new perspective" is what happens when understanding and the fourth dimesion work in harmony.
__________

DCCowan: Wow... Some discussion, with no name calling! How refreshing... OK, let's get to work.

In reply to:
"i am curious to know how you ethically justify making a living off of people's faith in the unprovable?"


Well, according to your definition, the only people that could get paid would be scientists... philosophers would be in a bad mess, wouldn't they? I mean... you make a proposition, and the next guy says, "prove it!" You lay out an argument, but in the end someone finds where it cannot be proven. Ouch... no paycheck. Seriously, sadistfaction... according to what you have challenged me with here, no one would get paid. Not even you, unless of course, you live and die by the scientific method.

In reply to:
"i am wondering why you allow yourself to profit off of people fear and uncertainty of their existence?"


Honestly, for sake of discussion, I do not know what you are saying. I have never come across someone in fear or someone uncertain of their existence.

In reply to:
"i am wondering what result you gains from having this "faith" when it is inevitable that people die, jesus does not save... what benifits does it offer if people still die?"


Well, this answer takes us into the realm of the unprovable (like just about everything in this life) by taking us into the arena of belief. As a Christian, I believe that I have a personal relationship with God because of the life and death and resurrection of Jesus, his son, and my trust/love of/in him. This relationship is a two way street. I have given God my life and in return, he has given me his. So, in this life, though I will die, I have him now. That's a comfort to me, a strength... that I am not in this world alone, as it were, lacking purpose or meaning.

In reply to:
"why didnt god publish the bible himself rather than allowing this supposed 'holy book' to be haphazardly compliled over hundreds of years?


With all due respect, you are extremely misinformed. I have a Master's Degree in Greek and Hebrew and because of that, my major area of study was the original languages of the bible and their manuscripts. It was ANYTHING BUT half-hazardly compiled. Do you realize that Christians are attributed with the first use of a book? Christians, as early as late 1st century and early 2nd century were using books rather than scrolls for their manuscripts. Did you know that we have a papyrus fragment of the gospel of John that dates to 125 AD? Some would even say it's first generation (bringing the date to it's authorship: 95 AD), at least second (125 AD). Did you know that we have THOUSANDS of fragments and MANY complete and full manuscripts of both the old and new testaments? Ironically, these texts were written in a strategic place where if you stick something in the sand it remains preserved for thousands of years... go figure. Also, did you know we only have like a handful of manuscripts, like one or two in some cases, of great Greek philosophers like Plato or Socrates ... and these texts are hundreds of years younger than the supposed authors? But you don't hear anyone wondering if Plato actually said such and such or Socrates either for that matter. Interesting...

I have much more to say on this, but it looks like I have a LOT more to answer.

In reply to:
"if heaven is so wonderful than wouldnt the logical thing be to just die as soon as we are born of as painlessly as possible? and how could god blame you for this after all we are only human and 'nobody is perfect' certainly not a human so how could they resist having eternal bliss? oh yeah thats right ending your life full of pain, misery, heartbreak, and your inevitable death would giving up. right...nevermind this one.


Great question. I don't know why there is pain in the world. Life can suck sometimes. That's the deal. But just as there is pain, there is also joy, fun, exhilaration, triumph and victory. That's the deal. I am not ashamed to say I don't know why... that's just the way it is...

In reply to:
"you think i am an 'atheist fundamentalist' (what ever the f*** that is?) but you have no idea what i am. things are always different when you understand more about them


I called you that because you made assumptions about me because of my faith. Take a lesson from your own quote above; you did not take the time to know me. I was having a conversation with other boardies, and you broke in and crapped all over it. You can say whatever you want in your defense (and you have said a lot), but the truth is that you are no different than any fundamentalist I have ever seen, be they Christian or Muslim or whatever. Why? Because you barged in, crapped on everyone, name called, and judged people you don't know or have any relationship with other than membership with Moby.com and justified yourself in doing so while in the meantime making the others the guilty party. Sounds a lot like a fundamentalist to me.

In reply to:
"your human image of a 'god' to be worshipped is a rather immature thing to believe in, i am not belittling you, if you want the worthless consolation many are worse off than you, though i fail to see how you can take any comfort in that, which brings me to my next point>>>


How do you know or presume to know what my image of God is? And how can you say you are not belittling me but then say it's a "worthless consolation?" This is double-speak. I cannot answer questions based upon your assumptions about me... If I did, we would be talking about two different things: 1) what you think I am talking about, and 2) what I think you are wanting me to talk about.

In reply to:
"what do you hope to accomplish by worshipping?"


I hope to experience more of God, to connect with God.

In reply to:
"when people always refer to tragic events as 'god's will' yeah as if a God who lets a baby die of s.i.d.s. is deserving of worship! if this is how god runs his show have fun in 'heaven'."


Agreed, when someone says that, they are most likely NOT the one that has experienced the pain in question. That's a stupid comment to make on the part of the Christian. And, as I said, I do not know why bad things happen. I just know that they do happen, as well as the good.

In reply to:
"this is an opinion, but i think you should be made aware of it, i have found that many times, the most ethical/moral minded people are the ones who are the most fearful of trying or pursuing their dreams, they doubt their abilities and so they pursue a safe, easy route to "greatness" or elavating themselves from theaverage ape, and the choose a path of morals, ethics, religions, after all you do not necessarily have to be smart to "good" or phyisically fit to make an ethical decision, you just have keep "others" in mind, it is all a facade becuase the were too afraid to be an astronaut or a pirate, or human cannonball, or win the nobel prize, or place Gold in the 100 meter sprint in the olympics. repressing your desires makes you want to hold others back,you wish to keep them at your level. you were afraid. it makes you have strong attachment to community. like you.
so what did you really want to be DC? think back...way back, what was it? the next mozart? a rock star? the capatain of the star ship cowan? or something more fundemental, a spectar who travelled on the winds making people happy, making a cold fall day not feel so cold...something like that maybe? but instead you have found a cheap substitute, full of people blathering on about their problems, that and you have to roll over like a five dollar whore everytime someone tries to argue with you, because you cant prove anything, bummer...dude, you totally Gypped yourself! i could be wrong but there is a sketch of synapses in my brains that say this is not so far from the truth."



You're kidding, right? Would you ask the same question to Martin Luther King, Jr.? Billy Graham? Or Mother Teresa? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

IMO, to do what I do is the greatest job in the world. I am a rock-star. I am a teacher. I am a world changer. What are you?