I love the Moby Boards

Ah, yes... a mass ball of confusing thoughts and ideas all put into one forum: the Spiritual Discussions Forum @ Moby.com. Clay rightly calls it the Tower of Babble. lol

But, here is why I go there... here is one conversation with someone asking questions about Christianity...

Sapphire Dragon: My opinion and my question:
I don't think he was a lunatic. I think he was just different, like the Buddha. Jesus proclaimed he was the son of God, and I believe he was as much as we all are. I don't worship Jesus because I don't feel he was any Supreme Being, though I don't deny his greatness. Does that mean I'm not a Christian? Is not the basis of Christianty worshiping Jesus Christ?
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DCCowan: The basis of Christianity is finding grace because of what Jesus did for the whole world: dying and coming back to life. At least, that's the basics of the Christian faith...

Mark 10.45:
For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.
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Sapphire Dragon: hmm... so believing in the 'coming back to life' part's kinda crucial too, eh?
And if you don't mind could you also tell me what 'Jesus died for our sins' means? I've never understood it fully.
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DCCowan: In reply to: "hmm... so believing in the 'coming back to life' part's kinda crucial too, eh?"


Yes... it is. There are a lot of claims about Christianity that make it sort of like a house of cards. If one is taken away, the house falls. One of these is the resurrection.

The Apostle Paul says it best:
1 Corinthains 15.12-19:
But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all people.

If Jesus did not raise from the dead, he died in vain. Christians, like me, would live their lives in vain... the most pathetic on the planet. It would then just be (frankly, like the Passion of the Christ) like a story of a man that died a brutal and horrible death... and that's it.

But, for a Christian, that's NOT it. For us, Jesus was both 100% man and 100% God... he was like us in every way, except he didn't blow it like we do. Even when he lost his cool, it was appropriate. His death, in a way, shows the full extent of his humanity... real blood.... real tears... real death. And, his resurrection shows the full extent of his divinity... true life... true miracle... true victory over sin and death.


In reply to: "And if you don't mind could you also tell me what 'Jesus died for our sins' means? I've never understood it fully."

The only way to understand this concept is to understand, at least briefly, about the sacrificial system mindset of the Hebrew people thousands of years ago. The idea is basically that if a wrong is committed (of any kind), someone has to pay for it.

A modern day example: if someone commits a crime, like murder, all family members of the deceased seek justice. The murderer should do time and face the consequences. If the crime goes unpunished, one would say that there was a lack of justice.

Well, back up a few thousand years... the same applied then, too. Out of this came the sacrificial system. People would bring an offering/sacrifice to God for their sins... the ways in which they fell short, etc.

One sacrifice of note, was a spotless lamb. Each year, people would bring their offering as an atonement (a forgiveness, cleansing) of sin. In other words, the crimes/sins of the people were placed upon this poor lamb.

So... year after year after year... this was done.

In steps Jesus, and a new way of looking at this. In Christianity, Jesus became the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world (as John the Baptist described him). Once and for all, a final sacrifice was made. A spotless "Lamb" was given up in our place... and the sins of the world (even yours, even the most hideous hypocrites of the world like me as well) were placed upon him on our behalf.

In Christianity, we see the judge that pronounces us "guilty as charged," step down from his bench to take our place of judgment and pay for our crime in our place.

In fact, according to the Gospel of John, Jesus' last words from the cross were: "It is finished." The word was really one word in Greek. It was a word used for business transactions, purchases, and the payments of debts. It means "Paid in full." Like when you fully purchase your house, or your car, etc. In other words, our debts were all paid... once and for all. And of course, I don't mean in a true monetary sense, but figuratively.

Hope this helps a bit.
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Sapphire Dragon: ohh yeah, it helps. 'specially the explanation of the whole sacrificial system. and this
"His death, in a way, shows the full extent of his humanity... real blood.... real tears... real death. And, his resurrection shows the full extent of his divinity... true life... true miracle... true victory over sin and death."
is about the coolest thing I've ever read concerning Christianity.
Thank you for taking the time to explain all that. :)

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Man... I love stuff like that. I love it when the pieces come to together.